Bath Two Tunnels Half Marathon

There’s nothing quite as good as using a race as a training run, especially for a long run. You’re running with others, there’s a set course so you don’t need to worry about where to go, it’s catered and you get a medal.

With three weeks until Bournemouth a few of us decided to sign up to the Bath Two Tunnels Railway race series. One of my friends wanted to race it because he’s in great shape and PB’d in a training run for his current half marathon time but wanted to see if he could make it ‘official’. His pace was around my long run speed and I didn’t feel up to racing the half so decided to run with him and try to help him.

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Another one of my friends, Kate, decided to race the 10k and a few more from the club were doing the half and one the marathon (her first marathon!). Kate, Mike and me travelled down to Bath on the day which meant me being picked up at 6.30am on the Sunday (ouch). It would take about 2 hours to get there and Kate’s race started an hour before ours. I had a banana bread Trek bar and an Americano for pre-race fuel to keep things simple and we arrived at the park and ride in good time. It was all very smooth and easy to get to, though it didn’t feel like we went that far on the park and ride bus to be honest!

Bath Two Tunnels HQ

We met up with the other club mates and then milled around on the large grassy expanse. Relish Running are the race organisers and I’ve done quite a few races with them now (Cheddar Gorge being one of them). I would say that while they do put on good races, there are some rough edges…Their website isn’t that clear for finding information out and you don’t find out crucial race information (like start times) until much closer to the time. We had more emails about them needing marshals than the race itself. That said, the races are always very scenic and personal-feeling because they’re quite small.

Bath Two Tunnels start area

The race area for the short colour race

There were several races going on and different waves and start times which was a bit confusing! We got to cheer off the marathon-runner, Lisa-Lou, and then cheer off Kate.

Bath Two Tunnels race (14)

Then we had just less than an hour to hang about…we watched some very strange warm-up routine going on while which was somewhat amusing.

Race warmup

Just as Kate finished (she came second female and PB’d – whoop whoop!) we got ready to start.

Bath Two Tunnels start line

The start was on grass which was a bit annoying. Anyway we headed off at a comfortable pace. Straight away it was clear this wasn’t going to be an easy race for me, or an easy PB-achieving race for Mike. It seemed to go uphill straight away and just felt tough from the outset.

Bath Two Tunnels race

We got to the first tunnel fairly quickly. It was about 400m long. It was nice and cool inside and fairly dark. We were slightly behind our target pace but due to the uphills at the beginning we weren’t stressing about it because we believed we could pick it up later.

The next tunnel came around quickly afterwards. It was about a mile long, very dark (with cat’s eye lights), narrow and very chilly. It was novel at first but then it got to be a bit wearing. It felt like you were on a treadmill as there was nothing really to look at. As none of the roads were closed quite a few cyclists had to navigate past us (runners going both ways as a 10k wave were coming back) which made things a bit tricky. There was a radio playing classical music which was nice and atmospheric so that’s something.

The tunnels, as expected, buggered up our Garmins. My watch was completely out from the mile markers so I just used the stopwatch and try and do the maths as we ran. The mile markers though seemed to be out as well. We got to five miles far too soon (it would have been close to my PB, which we definitely weren’t!) and this meant we were left running blind, just going on feel.

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Race selfie required

The race had been advertised as fast and flat but it clearly wasn’t either. There were some nasty steep inclines, steep steps to navigate down and twisty turns. I found the course quite challenging and I know Mike was struggling too. I think we were both tired from marathon mileage and a bit misled by what we thought would be a PB-potential course. As we chugged up a really steep hill I asked a marshal (or gasped), “I thought this was supposed to be flat?” and he laughed and replied with an evil grin “Yes, compared to our other races”…having run a few of their other races I could agree. But they shouldn’t mislead people by saying it’s flat!

Bath Two Tunnels course

The course was beautifully scenic though, as you can expect with running in the rural parts of Bath. We ran a very long stretch down a canal and it was lovely. Though again we were constantly moving out of the way for cyclists, and some who were rather impatient and I’m sure expected us to jump in the canal to move out of the way!

Bath Two Tunnels course 2

Our pace had dropped and Mike decided that a PB was never going to happen. Mentally, physically and the course just went against us. I felt fatigued as well despite the pace being “easy”. So we settled in to a slightly more comfortable pace (though we really had no idea how well or badly we were doing with our watches being funny) and I yabbered away about fluff and nonsense to keep Mike’s mind off the race. It’s tough pacing someone in a race because you don’t know how much to talk and how much to push.

Bath Two Tunnels race (6)

At least I could take lots of photos and selfies 😉

And also finding conversations that didn’t require much from the other person so they could just listen. I’m sure I bored Mike to tears about my house moving problems! 😉

Bath Two Tunnels feed station

In true Relish Running style, the feed stations were very good. Lots of sweet and savoury options and electrolytes, flat Coke/lemonade and plain water. And gluten-free options! The marshals were very helpful and friendly as well.

As we got closer to the finish, with two miles to go, Mike started struggling more. I tried to encourage him without annoying him. We had a moment of respite at a set of traffic lights that we had to push the button and wait until it was red to go (yes, this is a legitimate part of the route and you can get disqualified for not waiting for the light). It was warm and the undulations still kept going. Right to the end (through a residential area) there just seemed to be incline after incline.

Bath Two Tunnels race (1)

The final straight before the grass finish (thank you Kate for the photo!)

We finally finished and both agreed it was a tough race and not one we’d do again. The course was pretty but there was a lot of running along canals which got a bit tiresome, and the hills we just weren’t prepared for. And without knowing your pace and miles it made it mentally quite tricky. I don’t blame Mike at all for giving up on his PB-attempt. I absolutely couldn’t have got a PB on that course! Especially not at the moment.

Bath Two Tunnels pace

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My time was 1:56:11 (Mike was just after me) which I’m a little disappointed with I must say considering we were aiming for 1:45-48. But these things happen. The race organisers also said afterwards that they measured the course as 13.4 miles. We got some good miles in and we came out uninjured so that is a good race result three out from a marathon!

Afterwards Kate, Mike and I headed back to the park and ride bus and then drove to find something to eat. We found a lovely pub, called the Red Lion, where the menu was amazing and we all found a few things we could easily have had. I went for the butcher’s board which had chicken wings, pulled pork, chorizo, chicken liver pate, sour cream, chutney and bread.

Post race meal

It was fantastic! So, so good. Kate had the pulled pork pizza and that looked amazing too. The perfect end to a rather tough training run!

Do you like to know a race elevation profile before running it? If I’m not bothered about times (for me or pacing someone) then I don’t mind.

Do you prefer a city or a rural race?

What do you like to find on a feed station in a race?

Stress, friends and dessert

Firstly, thanks for the lovely comments for my last post. I don’t think I’ve ever felt so stressed as I do right now. Usually I’m quite a calm person and let things wash over me but when everything is in my hands and my responsibility for big ‘Adult Things’ I get panicked.

But the weekend was a nice escape from it all. My university friends popped down for the day on Saturday and it was so lovely to see them and have a rant, a moan and a good old chat. I managed to squeeze in parkrun quickly before they arrived too, which is always good 😉

I had a terrible run though. I thought I’d try and use it as a tempo run but my legs felt heavy and drained straight from the start and my pace just slipped slower and slower. What annoyed me at the start as well was that when the whistle blew these four lads – and I say “lads” because they were very much laddy teenagers – pushed past me and several other people yelling “urgh this is ridiculous, we needed to be at the front” as they bolted off. It was just not very parkrun-y, you know?

Anyway as my pace dropped, I consoled myself with just doing a ‘t-shirt run’ (just getting the parkrun point rather than aiming for a time). My friend, Mark, who was running a long-run and doing parkrun in the middle ran up next to me and I moaned to him a bit about how rubbish I was feeling and he chatted away to me and kept my mind off it, which I was grateful for. On the second lap we over-took the lads who were run-walking by this point which was somewhat of a silver-lining… 😉

Netley Abbey parkrun pace

 

 

 

I sort of pulled it back on the final lap (with Mark’s help) but it still felt awful. I’m putting it down to having run 20 miles the week before and a tough week mentally!

My friends arrived shortly after I was showered and breakfasted and, as normal, it was lovely to catch up. We try and see each other for everyone’s birthdays ad events and sometime around Christmas. So five or six times a year? They all live in different parts of the UK which always makes it a bit tricky

We went to an old favourite pub right on the seafront for lunch, The Osborne View.

Osborne View lunch

 

We shared two mezze boards between the four of us which is always a winner in my eyes (and I’m glad we got two as I’m such a greedy eater!). I had feta and Mediterranean salad (with added chicken) for main and chocolate brownie and ice cream for pudding. Perfection!

Osborne View Hill Head

The sign on the right is very apt to me right now!

The pub is lovely and I’ve never had a bad experience there yet. And it’s so handy being close to the beach that we could come out and do a long walk next to the sea in the sunshine. It’s near to where I do my long runs if I stay with my parents so it feels very homey with good memories surrounding it.

I had an early night that evening because I just felt shattered. Though annoyingly my mind started to catalogue all the packing I still needed to do and I struggled to get to sleep. My alarm was set for the delightful time of 5.50am as I was going to Bath the next day for a race with some running club friends so this was stressing me out more. Grrr.

I’ll recap the race proper in another post but the race has made me really think about how I need to approach the Bournemouth marathon. I’m someone who needs a game plan. I can’t just rock up and do whatever on the day. I need a structured plan, with some sort of back-up as well just in case. But I’ve not really made a plan as I don’t have any real goals.

The Bath Two Tunnels half marathon was meant to be a training run as I was running with my friend, Mike, who was aiming for a PB, which handily was around my marathon/long run pace. But the race didn’t go to plan really for either of us as we both felt exhausted and the supposedly “fast and flat” course was anything but that (I suppose the give-away is that it was in Bath…). I know I’m not in the same shape as I was before Liverpool marathon so to aim for anything close to that time would be unwise. Yes I could risk it and power through but mentally that sounds awful to me and I don’t want to push the pace. So after thinking about it…My goal is to aim for sub-4 definitely, but around 3:45-40 would be nice and if I fancy anything better towards the end I can give it a go but I don’t want to ruin myself over it. Liverpool was a perfect race with perfect (for me) training, it would be foolish to recreate that! I just want another tick in the box enjoyable marathon.

Plus, I see the marathon as the end point to my major stresses. Whether I go to Iceland or not will have already happened and I’ll have moved house. Finishing Bournemouth will just be like one massive sigh of relief. I might just go into hibernation after that! 😉

Do you always like to have a game-plan for a race? I mess up when I don’t have a plan! Plus for every marathon I’ve always had a plan and it’s always worked well for me.

Do you meet up with old friends often?

How does stress affect you?

Back in the game

Morning, morning. I am pleased to say that I am back in the marathon running game!

OK to be fair (and I imagine you’re used to this now if you’re a long-time reader) I was probably being my usual paranoid runner self about my shin…which actually worked in my favour as I was very cautious and didn’t do my 16 miler long run, nor my Tuesday run. So by Thursday my shin had calmed down hugely and felt absolutely fine. I think the moral of the story for me is not to go crazy with calf raises and tighten up my calf. Oh, and rest is best!

This meant I could join in with a club-organised long run at the weekend, happy days! A few of us decided to make things interesting by doing 17 miles and then doing a parkrun to top it up to 20 miles. The appeal was a faster finish long run, a nice way to break up an otherwise laborious load of miles and also to get in some parkrun tourism. Most of us had never been to Winchester parkrun (which is about 30 minutes away) so it was quite nice to do something different.

The downside, however, was realising that to get the miles in before parkrun meant a very early start. 5.15am alarm for Saturday morning… ooof. This meant Friday night was technically a school night with sensible food and an early night. I made sure to lay my things out the night before ready to make it easy in the morning.

IMG_3910 Decided to wear my Steve Way “Don’t Be Sh*T” top to get me in the zone 😉

I slept so badly as I kept panicking about my alarm and just generally feeling nervous about the run. I woke up at 4.30am and was pleased that I had another 45 minutes to sleep. But then a while later I jolted awake thinking I’d missed my alarm. Well, my alarm was going off all right but it was on silent!! I was so lucky that it was only 5.20am. All thoughts of how tired I felt were gone as I leapt out of bed and got ready in a panic thinking I’d be late.Early morning long run I ate a Trek (Original Oat) protein bar as I walked Alfiea fter I got dressed. Probably not a great idea as it was so crumbly and it was so dark outside I was getting it everywhere. I had the world’s smallest coffee and was good to go! Despite my late getting up, I arrived at the local train station before everyone else. The plan was to leave our cars there, run to Winchester, eat something, then get the train back to our cars.

IMG_3921 The beginning crew ready to run

We were going to meet another friend, Matt, half way there as he thought it best to not run the entire 20 miles as he was recovering from the dreaded plantar fasciitis, and then we’d meet another friend, Kate, at the parkrun as she was running a half marathon the next day.Long run scenery The route was lovely! All along Itchen River and a fair bit off the main road – which is such a relief when running so many miles. Though it did rain on and off, it was a lovely temperature. I really enjoyed chatting away to the guys as we ran – the time flew by. I do like doing long runs on my own when I zone out and listen to podcasts, but there is something truly enjoyable about running with others, especially for such a long way. Long runs can get very lonely.Long run 2 We made it to Winchester parkrun with about five minutes to spare which was cutting it close. I didn’t want to have to run again after the parkrun and was about 0.5 away from 17 miles so did a lap around the course just before we started. This helped minimise the break between the two runs as well.

Winchester parkrun is very flat and is basically three laps around a field – though apparently we did a slight variation of the usual course doing a weird diagonal run across a field. My first mile was a bit panicked and rushed because after they finished the briefing I thought we’d be starting somewhere else but the guy just said “get ready, go!” and I realised I was quite far at the back and had to do a lot of over-taking and dodging around people. I did have a chuckle though when I saw a man who was running with a dog get yanked back as the dog decided to do his business there and then come what may. The guy had to stop and pick up the poo…a parkrun poo, tee hee.

The second lap was tough. My legs felt very heavy and it just felt hard. My pace dropped and I felt myself flagging. The third mile was easier because I knew it was the last, but my legs (understandably) still felt tired. I got 23:29 which I was over the moon with though. But it did make me think long and hard about what I could achieve at Bournemouth. I just don’t feel mentally ready to push the pace at that marathon and I don’t think my training as been as good as Liverpool had been. I also don’t feel the hunger to get a faster time like I did with Liverpool and I really don’t want to put pressure on myself and potentially have a horrible experience.IMG_3931

We all agreed that it was a tough parkrun because of the miles beforehand but were really proud of ourselves. And though Kate didn’t run the 20 miles, she still smashed out a great parkrun and got first lady! So we all felt pretty chuffed.

(Ave. pace 8:37min/miles)

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Then it was off to Whetherspoons for breakfast. We all sort of stumbled there slowly and collapsed at a table. Most of us had a fry-up. Fry-up post long runI went for the large fry-up but subbed my hash browns for more bacon (a superior swap I think).

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It was delicious! I also ordered a diet coke, a glass of water and a coffee. Hitting all bases.

We got a lift back with Kate which was great as well. I’m so pleased how well the run went. It was definitely the confident boost I needed for the marathon. Though I ran Cheddar Gorge marathon recently, it was still a good few weeks past now and having missed last week’s long run I was feeling a little worried. But during the 20 miles I felt strong and like I could have gone on and on. The pace was slower than my usual long run which is probably a good thing as 20 miles at my usual pace would probably make the next few weeks hard in terms of recovering and being fresh. Though I’m happy I got to pick the pace up at the end to push through.

After getting back I had this mad surge of energy. Instead of usually feeling exhausted I was on fire with housework, walking Alfie and getting stuff done. Though I didn’t feel hungry again until 4pm! (To be fair, that breakfast was HUGE so I’m not surprised).

The next day I decided to have a rest day. My legs felt good, no niggles or twinges, but I felt a general sense of tiredness. Remembering how injury-prone I am and that I’m not the fastest at recovering, I thought it best to forgo any exercise other than some lovely long walks with Alfie. <– Can we just marvel out how sensible that sentence is for me. I’ve come a long way!

Later on I saw Ben’s mum again this weekend for afternoon tea. We were meant to do afternoon tea last weekend but we left it too late so we decided to try again. We headed to a place I’ve been before but not for a while, Lilly’s in Wickham.

Lilly's WickhamWe both went for a slice of red velvet cake, a fruit scone with jam and cream and I had ham and onion marmalade sandwiches.

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It was divine. Though I do prefer to have crusts on my sandwiches they were very dainty!

So all in all, a pretty good weekend. Cake and running – things are back to my kind of normal 😉 And now time to taper!

How was your weekend?

What’s your ideal long run? A training run at a race, running solo, running with others?

Crust or no crusts on your sandwiches?

Not panicking

Here we go again. The weather is definitely on the change. The morning’s are not distinctly cooler and autumn is swooping in fast.

My weekend was a mixed bag really. Just rolling back to the start of the week I decided to book myself a sports massage with my normal physio as I could feel my shin/calf was a bit niggly. I ran on Tuesday night and it felt fine during the run but after doing some track work on Thursday night, it was definitely more grumpy. Luckily my massage was booked for Friday as I was working from home so it was nicely timed.

The physio wasn’t too concerned. She said it was just getting a bit inflamed which was causing the tightness. It’s annoying because I’ve managed to avoid all other injuries by strengthening my body; no IT band issues anymore, no knee issues, hip issues, groin issues etc. All of which have consistently plagued me in the past. After strengthening my body (specifically my glutes) I haven’t had any twinges, tightness or anything. The issue I’ve been consistently having with my shin/calf though I don’t know what to do about. I wondered if it was because I had weak calves and over the past few weeks have been doing lots of calf raises (single leg on the stairs).

After talking to my physio though she reckons that’s unnecessary and probably compounding my issue further. She said my calf (the one I’ve really focused on) feels very tight and this is probably making things worse when I run. Looking back it does seem to make sense as it has only got more niggly the more strength work I did. The likelihood is that it’s a biometrical issues caused by my flat feet (*sighs*) which gets aggravated when I do lots of mileage, but usually isn’t anything that comes to much (I do get a very slight similar issue in the other leg, but it never comes to anything). However adding in my quite enthusiastic calf raises most days (yep, I’m that keen) has just sparked it off. Thankfully though she’s given me some good exercises to work on my flat feet to strengthen my arches to try and stop this happening in the future. All about the toe-grabs 😉

And because I am such a paranoid runner and terrified of stress fractures I asked if it could be or was close to being a stress fracture (I know how ridiculous this sounds…especially as there was no actual pain). She knows my neuroticism and all but laughed at me. She ultrasounded my entire shin and calf area to reduce any inflammation and reassured me that if I had a stress fracture then the pain of the ultrasound would have been severe. The fact that I felt nothing proved I didn’t have one. Well, that’s something!

After that very long explanation, I ran parkrun on Saturday because I wanted to do it and because I wanted to know in my mind how bad it was. It didn’t feel amazing but no pain, just discomfort and, well, niggliness. It was very tender from the massage as well which probably didn’t help. I shouldn’t have run (my physio advised against it…yes I know, I’m ridiculous) but mentally I needed to know. It wasn’t any worse afterwards…

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It was the first time in ages that I was cold before we started. I say cold, more chilly really. Nothing like as bad as it gets in the depths of winter when you dread taking your coat off to line-up.

The rest of the day was, again, sorting more house stuff out. Specifically the loft and shed. Everywhere else is pretty much sorted in terms of streamlining my stuff, separating bits and pieces between Ben and me and throwing out/giving away/selling junk. Just the loft and shed are a beomoth of crap and full of stuff that “we might use later”.

The next day I’d planned 16 miles but on the advice of my physio I cancelled it. I’m probably going to take the rest of the week off just to be safe. For once I’m not panicking. Obviously I don’t want to DNS Bournemouth but I don’t think it’ll come to that if I’m sensible. Thankfully this isn’t an injury, but it could become one. A week off now means things can resume again without issue (FINGERS CROSSED). I think I’m mainly not that stressed about Bournemouth because I have no goals apart from to just finish it. Getting close to my previous times would be nice but I want to enjoy the marathon and not rinse myself and stress out. I just love marathons and want to continue my streak of having another good one in terms of enjoyment.

So I ended up in the gym on Sunday morning. I didn’t set an alarm but woke up at 7.30am and realised I could make the 8.30am Spin class. Ultimately having someone yell at you to workout is so much easier than motivating yourself I find (if it’s not running that is).

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I haven’t been to Spin in ages and was dreading it. But you know what, I really enjoyed it. The instructor was fantastic and played some great music. The sprints were hard but I found myself really going for it. Good workout indeed!

I wanted to exercise for around the same time I’d have been running for to maintain some sort of endurance (and sanity) so went on the elliptical machine, the rower and then followed by the stepper. I find it so hard to motivate myself or keep myself interested which is why I machine hopped (I tried to keep the breaks minimal when hopping between).

IMG_3806Less time than I would have been running but higher intensity I suppose. No way near as fun as a long run (and calorie stats and HR are so dull in comparison to having minutes per mile splits and elevation charts…) but it is what it is!

The rest of the day was spent having a long walk and chat with a close friend with Alfie. The weather was beautiful and it was lovely. Not much else to report sadly. Like I said, a bit of a mixed bag. I’m not stressing about my calf but I am bummed I can’t run…for the moment. But I have a far more positive outlook 🙂

Also, I’ve just started watching the Hannibal TV series. I was a bit reluctant as it looked a bit gory and scary for me but I liked the sound of the premise and the two guys in it are quite dishy (in a weird way). I AM HOOKED. It is rather grisly but it’s quite enthralling.

What have you gotten up to this weekend?

What TV shows are you hooked on right now? Do you have a particular genre you go for?

Calf raises: yes or no??

Gel Glorify and Luminus – Pound The Road, Not Your Feet

A few weeks ago I was sent two pairs of trainers and some items of running gear from the guys at The Running Bug in connection with ASICS and Intersport (where the trainers are exclusively stocked).

I’m fully aware that this is a dream come true scenario for any runner to be given items of clothing and trainers so I was obviously very happy to try them out. However, I do always feel slightly cautious with trying new trainers because: hello I’m injury prone.

That said, by their description the trainers sounded right up my alley. They’re part of the new gel collection which stresses the concept of “pound the road, not your feet”, especially with long distances. OK, I’m on board so far. So what were the trainers and what were they like?

Gel-Glorify

The Glorify trainer is similar to the ASICS Nimbus model. They have gel cushioning in the front and back as well as a “FluidRide” midsole so keep things nice and bouncy (good “bounce back”). They’re aimed at longer distance running (10k onwards) and were designed to give you a comfy spring in your run. They also have a “Full Length Guidance Line” which is aimed to keep your foot stable during the gait cycle even when you’re fatigued.

ASICS Glorify trainers, socks, shorts and T-shirt

My thoughts? I found them very comfortable and bouncy. I’ve said this previously, but they reminded me a bit of Adidas Boosts but not quite as light. That’s not to say they feel like a heavy shoe, they don’t. But Boosts are more short distance racing shoes, whereas these are in it for the long haul. And for me, this is important in my marathon training. They’re a neutral shoe so ideal for those who don’t have serious pronation problems. Unfortunately I do but I slipped in my insoles into them and they still feel great (I do the same with my Boost neutral trainers). I found them really good for tempo runs when I needed a quick leg turnover but still have a good level of comfort.

Gel-Luminus

The Luminus is similar to the ASICS Kayano model. Again they have a lightweight cushioning and are more of a structured shoe to help stabilise the heel and midfoot. They also have a good amount of room in the forefoot.

My thoughts? These were my favourite out of the two. They’re a structured cushioned shoe and are ideal for my over-pronation. I’ll never feel entirely comfortable in racing flats of minimalist shoes. I’m a runner who needs support and feels more confident when I have it. These didn’t feel like big heavy support shoes, they felt light-weight and my runs felt nice and smooth. What I really liked was that there was a good amount of room in the front compartment: no black toenails for me!

Additional note: I also really like that both trainers have normal length laces. Mizuno drive me mad with their stupidly long laces – why!?

ASICS Apparel

Along with the trainers, I was sent an ASICs technical T-shirt, shorts and socks.

The T-shirt and shorts are really good quality. The T-shirt is lovely and lightweight and nicely fitted.  It also has reflective strips.

The shorts are fantastic. So much so I wore them for my Cheddar Gorge marathon. They’re so comfy, no chafing, have a handy zip back pocket and were lovely and breezy for the run.

The socks are soft and haven’t given me blisters, but I do prefer the shorter “trainer socks”. But that’s merely an aesthetics point!

I like ASICS as you know where you stand with them. They products are good functional and quality goods. The trainers are available exclusively at InterSport so check out their website to find where you can purchase them from.

Do you like ASICS?

What brand of trainer are you currently using?

Do you prefer cushioning and support or more minimalistic trainers?

**Full Disclosure: I was sent these products for free in exchange for a review. All opinions are my own honest ones.**